Tuesday, 4 November 2014

The Boot Times

Continuing on from last month's rules debate...

...I have a question.

What do we reckon about the use of End Times rules, models, etc in the Woffboot? 

Our points limits exclude most of the largest nightmares, I think. Are we all okay with the idea of extending that to other special characters? How about new units like Blightkings or anything the Dark Elves come up with between now and then? What about the new demon-summoning and necromancy spells?

Personally, I'm not adverse to seeing things in action. I'm just not sure the Woffboot needs the influx of new crazies or blendered army lists. But perhaps I'm wrong - what do you blokes reckon?


  1. My initial tuppence...

    - The 50% Lords/Heroes is now in the official rules (as of the updated FAQ), but since we've imposed our own allowances on the 'Boots, it's currently overruled by house rules.

    - For the new models, I'd say sure, why not? Our points limit already rules out anything on the Mortarch-scale, and there's already plenty of rough stuff in the existing army books.

    - Maybe the Lore of Undeath should be available to TK and VC armies (assuming it's actually preferable to Vampires/Nehekhara/Death), but any other army wanting to use it should be beaten around the head with a fluff stick (which I guess is a feather duster)

    - As for the merged armies, summoned deamons, and other scenario-specific rules... well, we've never been keen on scenarios (having played exactly 1 out of 70 WoffBoot games), and have yet to agree the boasts/grudges issue. So I'd favour leaving the pin in that particular grenade.

    - However, it strikes me that we will already have a number of Undead & Chaos armies (and Elves too, if the ET: Khaine is to be believed) present at WoffBoot XI ... maybe we stage a little off-tournament End Times game of doubles on the Saturday morning?

  2. My thoughts:

    I don't like the merged armies unless all get to have the same option in composition, so currently with only the two books, I would suggest not for the main boot.

    However the thought of the Sunday game being an endtimes battle with full endtimes rules, between two endtimes lists available at that time: definitely does appeal.

    With the combined armies not in play, the new units still have homes in normal armies, and so would argue that they are absolutely valid as per new rules in those lists.

    Lore of Undeath and the new chaos sorceror spell (I don't know if signature/swap/or always get yet) are both endtimes spells... I would be an advocate of not including in the boot.

    That's my thoughts, others?

  3. I reckon a Sunday Endtime Nagash v Glottkin ubermerged list romp sounds cracking. If only we had appropriate painted models...

    I reckon having access to the new spells is only going to be fun in a very specific 'I've got a clever plan for this army build' sort of way. And popping new units out on the field is a lovely mechanic, but sort of time-consuming, I think. Likewise the blended armies. So I agree that the 'Boot isn't the right place for them, much as I'd like an excuse to bring my Tzeentch daemons out of retirement!

    But hurrah to new units. Be interesting to see what other horrors the next two books bring. Demon rats? High elf defector units for the Delves? If I had to guess, I'd say something on 40mm bases, but who knows what!

    1. There seems to be a basic pattern of: Character + Monstrous Infantry + Monstrous Mounted Character + Imperator Titan.

      If the next release is Skaven, that would seem simple enough - using Moulder mutants or Skyre war machines for the big kits, and a Vermin Lord for the big ticket.

      If the next release is Elves, I'd be fascinated to see if they stay consistent: there's already plenty of monsters to ride, and an Avatar of Khaine could be the massive model, but I don't think there is anything (Treekin excepted) across all the elf armies that is currently Monstrous Infantry - unless someone finally sees sense and makes Elf-Ogre Maneaters...


  4. Verminlord and Khaine must be pretty safe bets, I reckon. It's the smaller ones that are harder to guess. I'm going to stake my bets on monstrous rat riders for skaven (no real cavalry in their list right now) and, oo, I don't know, walking torture devices full of poisoned hag victims driven to killing frenzy for the Delves. Something like the fantasy equivalent of the Penitant Engine.

  5. Interestingly, according to official FAQ the 50% lord and 50% hero is the rule in all games (not just End Times), also Undeath is valid... So whilst I would not go for conjoined armies, the below seems like it is valid for any game now:


    1. So do we take that as canon or stick to our own rulings?

    2. Pass - happy with either.
      But, personally, would favour the new errata-ed rules as that's what other games will now start to be.

    3. Happy with either too! Likely to change again before time anyway, as the Times keep Ending. So I guess we can decide what we're happy with (probably everything, for completeness, and we can always ruthlessly tease fluffbreakers) nearer the time, right?

    4. Our current tournament limit is "Lords/Heroes <= 50% (of which Lords <=25%)". If we're looking to match stride with the new rules, we could either:

      - "Lords/Heroes <= 50%" (so you can max out on one supercharacter if you want)

      - Just go with 50% Lords, 50% Heroes and see how it goes. After all, points spent on characters are not being spent on war machines, monsters etc

    5. Lords+Heroes not more than 50% would be my preference of those two. Does my dim memory deceive me, or is that how it once was? The snake consumes itself, and all things come to pass again...

      Meanwhile - Daemons, baby! Summoning Daemons!

    6. Technically summoning daemons is still Endtimes only... summoning undead is now core though.

      I am tempted to temper the adjustment and so am fine with the suggestion... although with 6 months between now and then, and more books to come: I reserve the right to get excited and change my mind! (come to think of it, I probably will, it is only extra options!)

    7. Quite right, Characters were once 0-50%
      Also: Troops 25%
      War Machines 25%
      Monsters 25%
      Allies 25%

      Let's bring it back to 4th!

  6. As for the new End Times rules, I'm thinking maybe we should go with the flow. Not least because we know it will affect at least two (and likely more) armies in the next WoffBoot. We said we'd take new rules given enough lead time and this certainly seems to be Warhammer 8.5

    The Undead Legion rule can be viewed (among other things) as an direct revision of the Tomb Kings list (marching and no Hierophant crumble all seem positive for TK) . As this is official, it's like the Tomb Kings have received a new army book, and it would be churlish to deny those rules.

    Although I have just thought of one downside to being an Undead Legion over a Tomb Kings list: would that army now be considered a Force of Destruction, rather than neutral?
    (Starfire arrows, baby!)

    1. Cool... Well if rumours true, the combo elf book should be out by then.

    2. Wood Elves are isolationist - I will never combine!

      ... although I could use those Great Eagle upgrades.
      ... and some Doomfire Warlocks.
      Ohhh... and a Phoenix!

    3. To be fair, rumours only talk about high and dark... maybe those pesky goody woody two-shoes are going to be left in the woods.

    4. How dare they exclude us before we've had a chance to reject them!